Time to dump my GS-FLX?

[pmiguel]

So I have a service contract coming due for both our GS-FLX and our Beckman Coulter Counter (which we use only for the GS-FLX). So we are looking at nearly $50K for one more year.

Why should I re-up? We are mainly doing Illumina sequencing now. We are getting a couple of MiSeqs. I spec'ed MiSeq's current cost/raw megabase at $0.76 The HiSeq at $0.05 and the GS-FLX at $11.76. MiSeq can do 2x150 nt reads now.

Opinions?

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Phillip

[nickloman]

And 2x250 bases in the summer ...

[colindaven]

The only justification is the long reads, or if you've only had the funds to invest in one sequencer and that's 454. That is, at least for samples you can't outsource.

In your position, I wouldn't keep it running provided you have time to get the MiSeqs up and running before the 454 is mothballed.

[flxlex]

You could just keep it running til it dies?

[kmcarr]

Of course everyone's situation is different but I think it is now very, very hard to make a business case to spend $50K maintaining what is essentially an abandoned platform. We jumped at the chance to take advantage of Illumina's trade-in program to swap our GS-FLX for a discount on our new MiSeq. Have you already cut your P.O. for your new MiSeqs? Any possibility using your 454 for trade?

[pmiguel]

Of course everyone's situation is different but I think it is now very, very hard to make a business case to spend $50K maintaining what is essentially an abandoned platform. We jumped at the chance to take advantage of Illumina's trade-in program to swap our GS-FLX for a discount on our new MiSeq. Have you already cut your P.O. for your new MiSeqs? Any possibility using your 454 for trade?

I think I maxed out trade-in $'s with my SQ unit.

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Phillip

[GenoMax]

As flxlex said you could keep running it ... till it breaks.

You are taking a big chance though, specially if you have any kind of turnaround guarantee for samples meant to be run on GS-FLX specifically.

If it is meant for production use, then you may need to bite the bullet and pay for the warranty.

I think I maxed out trade-in $'s with my SQ unit.

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Phillip

[MissDNA]

In any case Phillip, if you decide to dump you GS-FLX I hope you keep posting on this section. Your input is always very helpfull.

Our Ion Torrent shall arrive soon. We have no plans to get rid of our 454. Sometimes I wish we had bought a MiSeq instead of the Ion. Illumina is still new in Brazil though, it doens´t look reagents delivery and tech support are very efficient yet but then we have problems with the other brands too.

[GenoMax]

You are in roughly the same time zone as the illumina main tech support in San Diego, whom you could directly contact via email. Our experience with illumina tech support in SD has been very positive. We have rarely required a phone conversation and that too only when there is a complex problem.

Illumina is still new in Brazil though, it doens´t look reagents delivery and tech support are very efficient yet but then we have problems with the other brands too.

[MissDNA]

I am in Brazil and right now I believe 5 hrs ahead of West Coast time zone.

[epistatic]

We decided not to renew the service contract on our 454. We operate at 100% cost recovery and without subsidizing the 454 from other service lines I couldn't see enough users using the 454 enough in the coming year to break even. Our main 454 user on campus already moved most things to the MiSeq and when PE-250 comes will move everything. It is easier to send off the rare 454 work somewhere else and let them worry about lack of Roche support and kit quality issues. Not having to put an RA on emPCR is also a benefit, the HiSeqs and MiSeqs are so much easier to set up and use. I would rather worry about cluster densities than emPCR titrations any day.

[pmiguel]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Looks like we will probably drop the service. We can keep the instrument around, in case someone has to have a run done.

To tell you the truth I'd be more motivated to try to stick it out for another year if Roche were not attempting to purchase Illumina. The "well we've pretty much run one instrument system into the ground, time to move on to the next one" attitude doesn't do much for me. Anyway, looks like things are moving along so quickly now that by the time Roche ruins Illumina there will be other strong competitors to take their place.

I hope.
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Phillip

[tokikake]

As far as I know roche enlarged their sequencing service team, so it seems that a) they are still interested in 454 sequencing and subsequently the support of the platform or b) the problems after the upgrade are more serious and thes need more people.

[flxlex]

"well we've pretty much run one instrument system into the ground, time to move on to the next one"

Resistance is futile...

[pmiguel]

As far as I know roche enlarged their sequencing service team, so it seems that a) they are still interested in 454 sequencing and subsequently the support of the platform or b) the problems after the upgrade are more serious and thes need more people.

They are? I am unaware of anything like that happening in the US. In any case, the time for Roche to act was 3 years ago, just after the release of Titanium they were somewhat behind the curve of the Illumina juggernaut, but had a good track record of aggressive improvements to their platform. After that point they just seemed to to be incapable of dealing with their competition -- acting almost as if Illumina did not exist. Then last year they finally release their FLX+ upgrade -- too little too late.

I have seen severe attrition in both their sales force and application specialists. At the same time there are now bench top instruments (Ion Torrent and MiSeq) that produce more data at lower reagent costs.

If one of your competitors is producing an instrument that can be purchased for the price of an annual service contract on your instrument, your day is likely over.

Hey, I could be philosophical about all of this. 454 ushered in the next generation sequencing age. Not all that long ago, but they have been tumultuous years. If they want to sunset the technology rather than improving it -- okay, they had their day. It is just this purchasing Illumina for billions rather than innovating their way out of the hole they have dug that is irksome.

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Phillip